<html>
  <head>
    <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
      http-equiv="Content-Type">
    <link href="chrome://translator/skin/floatingPanel.css"
      type="text/css" rel="stylesheet">
  </head>
  <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    <font face="Andika Basic"><br>
      Es que en ese caso no podemos comparar <i>todo</i> ANTEL si no
      sólo una parte:  la 3G y celular.  Entonces, si me decís "Ancel es
      mejor que la contraparte privada", sí tenés toda la razón es
      muchísimo mejor.  Es más, usaría Ancel con todo gusto  (y un gran
      alivio)  si para hacer un contrato de celular no te pidieran hasta
      el nombre del perro.<br>
      Pero esa es sólo UNA parte de ANTEL.  Las otras partes, teléfono e
      internet ADSL no tienen contraparte privada y por tanto no hay con
      qué compararlas.<br>
      <br>
      Por eso mi comentario<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <i>Saludos<br>
        Sylvia<br>
      </i><br>
    </font><br>
    El 18/09/11 17:12, Fernando Da Rosa escribió:
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAAeuT1v34CEfycrFx1oMWjQef1dwMSxz_3gOcjWb=0w0i1r=qA@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">Pensé que estábamos hablando de servicios de conexión
      a Internet. No solo de ADSL.<br>
      <br>
      Saludos<br>
      Fernando<br>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">El 18 de septiembre de 2011 14:34, Sylvia
        <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:Mapalapa_Igu@yahoo.com.ar">Mapalapa_Igu@yahoo.com.ar</a>></span>
        escribió:<br>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
          .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
          <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <font face="Andika
              Basic"><br>
              Perdón Fernando pero... comparado con la contraparte
              privada... ¿cuál contraparte privada?  En Uruguay el ADSL
              es vendido sólo por ANTEL.  Entonces, ¿con qué vas a
              comparar si no hay otra opción?<br>
              <br>
              <br>
              <i>Atentamente<br>
                Sylvia<br>
              </i><br>
            </font><br>
            El 17/09/11 17:58, Fernando Da Rosa escribió:
            <div>
              <div class="h5">
                <blockquote type="cite">Es muy gracioso, hace unos
                  cuantos años. los inicios de la word wide web tuve una
                  fuerte discusión con Grompone, el me decía "Internet
                  no tiene futuro, no va a durar mucho, no hay plata en
                  eso", por suerte hoy en día reconoce su error.  Hace
                  poco escuche a Batlle diciendo que Bill Gates invento
                  Internet, otro disparate. <br>
                  <br>
                  Ya no creo en los pronósticos de nadie solo por quien
                  lo dice, ahora bien, en este caso si estoy de acuerdo.
                  El software libre abrio la puerta a la caída o perdida
                  de influencia de Microsoft, pero no por acción de la
                  comunidad, sino de empresas que se vieron beneficiadas
                  directa o indirectamente por el software libre.<br>
                  <br>
                  Con relación a ANTEL puede ser que uno tenga
                  problemas, pero es más barata y eficiente que su
                  contraparte privada. Al menos es lo que viví yo en mi
                  caso. <br>
                  <br>
                  Saludos<br>
                  Fernando<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <div class="gmail_quote"> El 17 de septiembre de 2011
                    17:07, Gabriel Icasuriaga - MasterNet <span
                      dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:masternet@adinet.com.uy"
                        target="_blank">masternet@adinet.com.uy</a>></span>
                    escribió:<br>
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                      .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                      <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <br>
                        sep para hacerla simple<br>
                        linux migra a android, o sea  continua,
                        microsoft muere en los pcs siempre estuvo atado
                        a esa arquitectura y no se avivo del cambio,
                        windows phone va pa tras en vez de crecer<br>
                        <br>
                        otra frase de grompone "unix es una cuarentona
                        que sigue dando lo mejor"<br>
                        <br>
                        Brechner no es una cara bonita pero si lo vieran
                        desdibujado que me vienen con freddy kruguer !!<br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        El 17/09/2011 03:27 p.m., Carlos M. Martinez
                        escribió:
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <blockquote type="cite">
                              <div>La muerte de Microsoft ?? Esa si que
                                s buena :-)<br>
                                <br>
                                Sent from my iPad</div>
                              <div><br>
                                On Sep 17, 2011, at 3:11 PM, Gabriel
                                Icasuriaga - MasterNet <<a
                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="mailto:masternet@adinet.com.uy"
                                  target="_blank">masternet@adinet.com.uy</a>>

                                wrote:<br>
                                <br>
                              </div>
                              <blockquote type="cite">
                                <div> <br>
                                  Ismael, <br>
                                  <br>
                                  No estoy del lado de los que
                                  descubrieron los males desde hace 7
                                  años ni los que todo es culpa de lo
                                  que paso antes,  no estoy embanderado
                                  y no tengo q andar mirando el
                                  almanaque ni el pelo del otro para
                                  formarme una opinion.<br>
                                  <br>
                                  No considero que la joda se haya
                                  terminado ya, a otro perro con ese
                                  hueso; cada vez hay mas empresas
                                  "publicoprivadas"<br>
                                  <br>
                                  De paso, el otro dia hubo mesa redonda
                                  donde entre otros, estaban Brechner y
                                  Grompone, deberian haber visto la cara
                                  del primero cuando Grompone le espeto
                                  la muerte de microsoft en la cara, en
                                  fin solo para cambiar de tema<br>
                                  <br>
                                  <br>
                                  <br>
                                  <br>
                                  <br>
                                  El 17/09/2011 02:35 p.m., Ismael
                                  Castagnet escribió:
                                  <blockquote type="cite">lo más loco de
                                    todo esto es que la inmensa mayoría
                                    de los zánganos de la administración
                                    pública fueron puestos (clientelismo
                                    político mediante) por los mismos
                                    partidos que ahora dicen que hay que
                                    achicar el estado y que se viven
                                    quejando de la ineficiencia estatal
                                    ...<br>
                                    <br>
                                    trabajo en la intendencia y todos
                                    los que están al óleo entraron a
                                    dedo con los colorados o con los
                                    milicos<br>
                                    desde que está el frente se entra o
                                    por concurso o por sorteo (por las
                                    dudas aclaro que me parece horrible
                                    eso que salió el otro día de que
                                    había un porcentaje en los ingresos
                                    a las cuadrillas reservado para
                                    hijos de municipales)<br>
                                    <br>
                                    asistencialismo  hicimos toda la
                                    vida en este país ... mi padre tenía
                                    un taller de encuadernaciones y
                                    había organismos públicos que
                                    directamente ni se presentaba a las
                                    licitaciones porque estaban
                                    arregladas en administraciones
                                    pasadas ... <br>
                                    habían muchos proveedores del estado
                                    que agarraban el currito gracias a
                                    los jerarcas (también puestos a
                                    dedo) ... y ahí también la plata de
                                    todo el mundo iba para pagarle a
                                    esos zánganos que laburaban 3 días
                                    al mes y cobraban como gerentes<br>
                                    por suerte esa joda se terminó ya
                                    ...<br>
                                    <br>
                                    <br>
                                    <br>
                                    <br>
                                    <div class="gmail_quote">El 17 de
                                      septiembre de 2011 13:55, Gabriel
                                      Icasuriaga - MasterNet <span
                                        dir="ltr"><<a
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          href="mailto:masternet@adinet.com.uy"
                                          target="_blank">masternet@adinet.com.uy</a>></span>
                                      escribió:<br>
                                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                        style="margin:0 0 0
                                        .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                                        solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                        <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
                                          text="#000000"> <br>
                                          Supongo que lo de liberal es
                                          por eso del liberalismo
                                          neoliberalismo o por ahi, la
                                          verdad no tengo mucha idea si
                                          aplica  o no pero no me
                                          interesa<br>
                                          <br>
                                          Sobre los funcionarios
                                          publicos, tu lo sos, aclare
                                          que iba a generalizar<br>
                                          <br>
                                          y coincido totalmente con vos
                                          en las privadas se ven las
                                          mismas desgracias y PEORES con
                                          la unica diferencia que en las
                                          privadas hay un dueño que hace
                                          u oficia de pelotudo o tolera
                                          esas situaciones, en realidad
                                          me importa poco lo q una
                                          empresa privada hace con sus
                                          ganancias si las tira en la
                                          bolsa o en pagar sueldos al
                                          pedo etc etc <br>
                                          <br>
                                          en la orbita PUBLICA, mal que
                                          les pese el sueldo se los pago
                                          YO, incluyendote a vos, y
                                          realmente siento q pago
                                          sueldos de oro a muchos vagos
                                          y acomodados q si no fuera por
                                          el asistencialismo no
                                          vivirianmas q en los caños,
                                          asi q mientras mi dinero
                                          forzosamente va para los
                                          Principes del Estado Uruguayo,
                                          no me voy a cansar de
                                          protestar, por otro lado si
                                          hacen las cosas bien, tal como
                                          vos lo enumeras genial mijo
                                          para eso se les paga <br>
                                          <br>
                                          no confundir salarios dignos
                                          con que se pague por lo que no
                                          vale<br>
                                          <br>
                                          <br>
                                          El 17/09/2011 11:29 a.m.,
                                          Ismael Castagnet escribió:
                                          <div>
                                            <div>
                                              <blockquote type="cite">siempre
                                                con esa visión tan
                                                liberal master ...<br>
                                                claro, la culpa de todo
                                                siempre la tienen los
                                                funcionarios públicos,
                                                no ??<br>
                                                por favor ...<br>
                                                <br>
                                                en las grandes empresas
                                                privadas se ven los
                                                mismos vicios que se
                                                suele achacar a los
                                                funcionarios públicos
                                                (pésima atención, no
                                                solución de los
                                                problemas, deslinde de
                                                responsabilidades, abuso
                                                de poder, etc, etc)<br>
                                                <br>
                                                también en los
                                                organismos públicos hay
                                                muchos ejemplos de cosas
                                                que se suelen ponderar
                                                del trabajo privado
                                                (ejecutividad,
                                                eficiencia, etc, etc)<br>
                                                <br>
                                                saludos<br>
                                                <br>
                                                <div class="gmail_quote">El
                                                  17 de septiembre de
                                                  2011 09:56, Gabriel
                                                  Icasuriaga - MasterNet
                                                  <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:masternet@adinet.com.uy"
                                                      target="_blank">masternet@adinet.com.uy</a>></span>
                                                  escribió:<br>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    class="gmail_quote"
                                                    style="margin:0 0 0
                                                    .8ex;border-left:1px
                                                    #ccc
                                                    solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
                                                    que me disculpen por
                                                    la generalizacion,
                                                    pero me da la espina<br>
                                                    que el funcionariado
                                                    en general es lo
                                                    general del problema<br>
                                                    <br>
                                                    <br>
                                                    El 17/09/2011 08:31
                                                    a.m., Luis Pablo
                                                    Pérez escribió:<br>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <div>> El día
                                                        16 de septiembre
                                                        de 2011 16:55,
                                                        Marcelo Zunino<br>
                                                        > <<a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:marcelo.zunino@gmail.com" target="_blank">marcelo.zunino@gmail.com</a>>




                                                         escribió:<br>
                                                        >> Hasta
                                                        donde sé, el PJ
                                                        había adoptado
                                                        decididamente
                                                        varias
                                                        soluciones<br>
                                                        >> basadas
                                                        en software
                                                        libre. ¿Alguien
                                                        tiene mayor
                                                        información
                                                        sobre el<br>
                                                        >> asunto?<br>
                                                        >><br>
                                                        >> <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.elpais.com.uy/110916/pnacio-593639/sociedad/el-nuevo-software-genera-demoras-en-la-presentacion-de-demandas/"
target="_blank">http://www.elpais.com.uy/110916/pnacio-593639/sociedad/el-nuevo-software-genera-demoras-en-la-presentacion-de-demandas/</a><br>
                                                        >><br>
                                                        >><br>
                                                        >> Saludos<br>
                                                        >><br>
                                                        >> --<br>
                                                        >>    
                                                        Marcelo Zunino<br>
                                                        > La parte
                                                        mas interesante
                                                        del articulo:<br>
                                                        ><br>
                                                        >      "El
                                                        nuevo sistema se
                                                        está utilizando
                                                        a modo de
                                                        experiencia
                                                        piloto...<br>
                                                        >      
                                                        [texto
                                                        irrelevante]"<br>
                                                        ><br>
                                                        >      "Los
                                                        funcionarios (de
                                                        la Orda) están
                                                        sobrecargados
                                                        porque el nuevo<br>
                                                        >      
                                                        sistema es más
                                                        complejo, pero
                                                        la oficina
                                                        cuenta con el
                                                        mismo<br>
                                                        >      
                                                        personal de
                                                        antes", dijo el
                                                        secretario
                                                        general de la
                                                        Asociación de<br>
                                                        >      
                                                        Funcionarios
                                                        Judiciales del
                                                        Uruguay (AFJU),
                                                        Sergio Núñez.<br>
                                                        ><br>
                                                        >      "Hay
                                                        serios problemas
                                                        de adaptación en
                                                        cuanto a la
                                                        agilidad que<br>
                                                        >       antes
                                                        tenía el
                                                        trámite", indicó
                                                        Núñez a El País,
                                                        e informó que en<br>
                                                        >       la
                                                        Orda trabajan
                                                        actualmente 12
                                                        funcionarios.<br>
                                                        ><br>
                                                        > **si
                                                        asumimos que el
                                                        panorama es como
                                                        lo presenta el
                                                        articulo** (no
                                                        se<br>
                                                        > como hacer
                                                        este condicional
                                                        mas fuerte) .. a
                                                        ver...<br>
                                                        > **SI
                                                        ASUMIMOS QUE EL
                                                        PANORAMA ES COMO
                                                        LO PRESENTA EL
                                                        ARTICULO** ..
                                                        algo, mejor.<br>
                                                        ><br>
                                                        > Se pueden
                                                        decir tantas
                                                        cosas de estos
                                                        tres párrafos...
                                                        como mínimo,<br>
                                                        > que en esta
                                                        implementación
                                                        fallaron los
                                                        procedimientos y
                                                        no<br>
                                                        >
                                                        necesariamente
                                                        el software. Ej:
                                                        si una
                                                        experiencia
                                                        piloto genera
                                                        tal<br>
                                                        > nivel de
                                                        problemas algo
                                                        no anda bien con
                                                        el piloto ->
                                                         paremos el<br>
                                                        > piloto,
                                                        volvamos a la
                                                        etapa
                                                        desarrollo/testing,
                                                        ENTRANAMIENTO DE
                                                        LOS<br>
                                                        >
                                                        FUNCIONARIOS,
                                                        revisemos el
                                                        diagrama de
                                                        procesos,
                                                        pongamos 3<br>
                                                        >
                                                        funcionarios con
                                                        el nuevo sistema
                                                        y no los 12. En
                                                        definitiva: no
                                                        le<br>
                                                        >
                                                        compliquemos la
                                                        vida a los
                                                        usuarios del
                                                        servicio. El
                                                        objetivo de la<br>
                                                        > oficina es
                                                        "..ingresar
                                                        nuevos
                                                        asuntos,.." y no
                                                        "upgrade del
                                                        software a<br>
                                                        > la
                                                        shiny-new-re-hot-version
                                                        del sofware (que
                                                        en general
                                                        también<br>
                                                        > impacta en
                                                        los procesos)"<br>
                                                        ><br>
                                                        > Si el
                                                        software es
                                                        libre o no es
                                                        ortogonal a este
                                                        problema.<br>
                                                        >
                                                        _______________________________________________<br>
                                                        >
                                                        uylug-varios
                                                        mailing list<br>
                                                        > <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:uylug-varios@uylug.org.uy" target="_blank">uylug-varios@uylug.org.uy</a><br>
                                                        > <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://uylug.org.uy/cgi-bin/listinfo/uylug-varios" target="_blank">http://uylug.org.uy/cgi-bin/listinfo/uylug-varios</a><br>
                                                        ><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                                        uylug-varios
                                                        mailing list<br>
                                                        <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:uylug-varios@uylug.org.uy" target="_blank">uylug-varios@uylug.org.uy</a><br>
                                                        <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://uylug.org.uy/cgi-bin/listinfo/uylug-varios" target="_blank">http://uylug.org.uy/cgi-bin/listinfo/uylug-varios</a><br>
                                                      </div>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                </div>
                                                <br>
                                                <br clear="all">
                                                <br>
                                                -- <br>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
                                                <br>
                                                Defender la alegría como
                                                una trinchera ... <br>
                                                <br>
                                                Mario Benedetti<br>
                                                <br>
                                                <br>
                                                <fieldset></fieldset>
                                                <br>
                                                <pre>_______________________________________________
uylug-varios mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:uylug-varios@uylug.org.uy" target="_blank">uylug-varios@uylug.org.uy</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://uylug.org.uy/cgi-bin/listinfo/uylug-varios" target="_blank">http://uylug.org.uy/cgi-bin/listinfo/uylug-varios</a>
</pre>
                                              </blockquote>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                        <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                        uylug-varios mailing list<br>
                                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          href="mailto:uylug-varios@uylug.org.uy"
                                          target="_blank">uylug-varios@uylug.org.uy</a><br>
                                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          href="http://uylug.org.uy/cgi-bin/listinfo/uylug-varios"
                                          target="_blank">http://uylug.org.uy/cgi-bin/listinfo/uylug-varios</a><br>
                                        <br>
                                      </blockquote>
                                    </div>
                                    <br>
                                    <br clear="all">
                                    <br>
                                    -- <br>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
                                    <br>
                                    Defender la alegría como una
                                    trinchera ... <br>
                                    <br>
                                    Mario Benedetti<br>
                                    <br>
                                    <br>
                                    <fieldset></fieldset>
                                    <br>
                                    <pre>_______________________________________________
uylug-varios mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:uylug-varios@uylug.org.uy" target="_blank">uylug-varios@uylug.org.uy</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://uylug.org.uy/cgi-bin/listinfo/uylug-varios" target="_blank">http://uylug.org.uy/cgi-bin/listinfo/uylug-varios</a>
</pre>
                                  </blockquote>
                                </div>
                              </blockquote>
                              <blockquote type="cite">
                                <div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
                                  <span>uylug-varios mailing list</span><br>
                                  <span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      href="mailto:uylug-varios@uylug.org.uy"
                                      target="_blank">uylug-varios@uylug.org.uy</a></span><br>
                                  <span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      href="http://uylug.org.uy/cgi-bin/listinfo/uylug-varios"
                                      target="_blank">http://uylug.org.uy/cgi-bin/listinfo/uylug-varios</a></span><br>
                                </div>
                              </blockquote>
                              <br>
                              <fieldset></fieldset>
                              <br>
                              <pre>_______________________________________________
uylug-varios mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:uylug-varios@uylug.org.uy" target="_blank">uylug-varios@uylug.org.uy</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://uylug.org.uy/cgi-bin/listinfo/uylug-varios" target="_blank">http://uylug.org.uy/cgi-bin/listinfo/uylug-varios</a>
</pre>
                            </blockquote>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <br>
                      _______________________________________________<br>
                      uylug-varios mailing list<br>
                      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:uylug-varios@uylug.org.uy"
                        target="_blank">uylug-varios@uylug.org.uy</a><br>
                      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="http://uylug.org.uy/cgi-bin/listinfo/uylug-varios"
                        target="_blank">http://uylug.org.uy/cgi-bin/listinfo/uylug-varios</a><br>
                      <br>
                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
                  <br>
                  <br clear="all">
                  <br>
                  -- <br>
                  Fernando da Rosa<br>
                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:fernando.darosa@gmail.com"
                    target="_blank">fernando.darosa@gmail.com</a><br>
                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://www.fedaro.info" target="_blank">http://www.fedaro.info</a><br>
                  <br>
                  <fieldset></fieldset>
                  <br>
                  <pre>_______________________________________________
uylug-varios mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:uylug-varios@uylug.org.uy" target="_blank">uylug-varios@uylug.org.uy</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://uylug.org.uy/cgi-bin/listinfo/uylug-varios" target="_blank">http://uylug.org.uy/cgi-bin/listinfo/uylug-varios</a>
</pre>
                </blockquote>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
          <br>
          _______________________________________________<br>
          uylug-varios mailing list<br>
          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:uylug-varios@uylug.org.uy">uylug-varios@uylug.org.uy</a><br>
          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="http://uylug.org.uy/cgi-bin/listinfo/uylug-varios"
            target="_blank">http://uylug.org.uy/cgi-bin/listinfo/uylug-varios</a><br>
          <br>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
      <br>
      <br clear="all">
      <br>
      -- <br>
      Fernando da Rosa<br>
      <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:fernando.darosa@gmail.com">fernando.darosa@gmail.com</a><br>
      <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.fedaro.info">http://www.fedaro.info</a><br>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
uylug-varios mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:uylug-varios@uylug.org.uy">uylug-varios@uylug.org.uy</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://uylug.org.uy/cgi-bin/listinfo/uylug-varios">http://uylug.org.uy/cgi-bin/listinfo/uylug-varios</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <div style="bottom: auto; left: 16px; right: auto; top: 116px;
      display: none;" class="translator-theme-default"
      id="translator-floating-panel">
      <div title="Clic para traducir"
        id="translator-floating-panel-button"></div>
    </div>
  </body>
</html>